NEW YORK — Taj Gibson was back at practice on Friday, but Kurt Thomas will remain in the starting lineup at center when the Bulls face the New York Knicks on Christmas Day. The question posed to coach Tom Thibodeau…
Inside the Bulls
By now, you’ve certainly heard the news: Drew Stanton will be starting for the Lions as they face the Bears this Sunday. This kicked off a cavalcade of reactions:
“Apparently Schwartz said that the offense won’t change with Stanton at the helm. All I can say is I’ll believe it when I see it.”
"Hell had to find a way to ferret out the tiny pockets of hope that were still left in the fanbase and then crush their fragile spirits, and what better way to do that than to parade down the streets with a clueless Drew Stanton waving and smiling and throwing Grit at horrified onlookers while the devil rides an evil sleigh made from the bones of Matthew Stafford and Shaun Hill?"
I come from a different school of thought entirely. Way back in March of aught-nine, in this blog’s third month, I penned a little piece I called “On Quarterbacks,” which was much more about Drew Stanton in particular than quarterbacks in general:
Stanton is a player I have an extra soft spot for, because my then-toddler daughter was introduced to football through him. One of the games we’d play with her would be to point out Drew Stanton every time teh camera closed in on him. In fact, one of the first times she recognized a number was during a Spartan football game, and she started shouting, "Green Number Five!" It took us a little while to realize that she was seeing Stanton and calling out his jersey number: a green five. When got a little older, my mother taught her to say "Drew Stanton, what a babe!" (gee, thanks, Mom). Ultimately, DS was kind enough to do an autograph session at the Mall, and my little girl actually got to meet the man in person.
Anyway, when Stanton was drafted by the Lions, it was a dream come true, of course. A second-round pick, at just the right time to draft and groom a QB, and a very Millen kind of QB, a tough-nosed, smart, gritty, vocal leader. The kind of player who legitimately hates opponents and wants to beat them–not for glory, not for stats, not for money, but for the sake of victory. The kind of player who can’t stand losing, and will give every last ounce he’s got to come out on top. That is exactly the kind of quarterback that most Lions fans have been screaming for for years, yet have not ever seen.
I was both thrilled and scared to tell my daughter about Drew Stanton What A Babe becoming a Lion, because deep down I feared that what happened to Chuck would happen to Drew. That the dark presence that hangs over this organization would roll down upon Ford Field and smite him, and DS would never lead the Lions to anything. Sure enough, it’s been two whole seasons now; thanks to injuries, blackouts, and the ineffable Will of Rod, my now-twice-as-old-as-she-was-then daughter has still never seen Drew Stanton play for the Lions. She roots for the Buccaneers now.
If the Millen/Martz/Marinelli three-headed monster, and multiple untimely injuries, hadn’t snuffed out Drew Stanton’s hopes of ever becoming The Lions’ Quarterback (instead of a Lions quarterback), the selection of Matthew Stafford did. As soon as the ink was dry on Stafford’s massive contract, the forecast for Drew Stanton’s Lions career read “Cloudy with a slight chance of Charlie Batch in Pittsburgh.” From that point, Hometown Boy Career Backup was the best Detroit Lion he could hope to be.
Unfortunately, Drew hasn’t made enough of his few chances to get even there. His first—and until Sunday, his only—NFL start didn’t go so hot: 11 of 21 for 130 yards, no scores, and 3 INTs. Combined with his various relief and mop-up appearances, he’s completed 55 of 104 attempts for 611 yards, two TDs, and seven interceptions. That’s a career passer rating of 49.0.
His limitations as a passer are undeniable. At his best, Drew’s passes are in the right place at the right time, but lack zip, especially on deep routes. At his worst, his throws are wildly inaccurate and easily intercepted. As Neil is so fond of pointing out, though, Drew’s stock in trade is Grit: with heart and effort and general athletic ability, he goes out and makes plays and does his best to win, no matter the odds. In college, it worked—sometimes spectacularly. Drew did engineer the biggest comeback in NCAA D-I history, after all.
Unfortunately, the same hasn’t been true so far in the pros. In preseason, we’ve seen Stanton scramble for scores and throw 50-yard bombs—but when the bullets have been live, he’s been a dud. Some of it’s because his team’s been terrible. Some of it’s because he gets almost zero practice reps outside of training camp, so never practices with the starters and barely practices at all. Some of it’s because his best chance to make it in the pros was with slow, steady, careful grooming to build good habits and iron out bad ones. Some of it’s because . . . well, his limitations as a passer are undeniable.
Even so, this season we saw some real progress out of Drew. When he came in cold against the Giants, he turned in a performance that was a little shaky—but, yes, gritty. He made plays when he had to, and nearly shocked the Giants at Your Company Name Here Stadium. He impressed everyone, even Giants head coach Tom Coughlin:
"The third quarterback came in and, geez, he played very, very well,” Giants coach Tom Coughlin said.
And Dominic Raiola–part of a Lions offensive line that worked incredibly hard to give Drew time against one of the better pass rushes in the NFL–voiced his support of Drew, too:
"Drew is mentally tough. You’re not going to tell him he can’t play and then he’ll go in the tank. The guys are behind him — he got better and he did a good job for us,” Lions center Dominic Raiola said. "Drew’s come a long way. He’s so improved. People who think he’s not an NFL quarterback … he looked like one out there to me. He did a great job of preparing and he gave us a chance."
. . . and Stephen Peterman, too:
"I thought he did great,” guard Stephen Peterman said. "He came in and stepped in and played a helluva game. He made checks and looks that you wouldn’t expect from a guy who hasn’t been in there. He did a great job."
In the wake of the Bills loss, I angrily blamed Jim Schwartz for starting a severely hampered Shaun Hill (who was too hurt to practice the whole playbook that week), instead of giving Drew a solid week of preparation with the starters. Surely, I said during the Fireside Chat, if you knew that that was all Shaun Hill could give you, you have to start Drew. If you can’t count on your third quarterback to play when your second-stringer is too hurt to take snaps under center, then what is he doing on the roster? Schwartz answered that very question this week:
"There’s a reason we’ve kept him around, and you only keep a guy around if you have confidence to put him in a game," Schwartz said. "His role has been third quarterback, and now it’s time for him to be able to answer that and be able to go."
Obviously, actions speak louder than words: if Shaun Hill, playing at about 52% of his usual ability, gets the nod over a healthy Drew Stanton, then in fact you don’t have confidence to put him in a game. Then again, actions speak louder than words—Schwartz and Mayhew have had plenty of opportunities to cut Drew loose and bring in someone else. The Lions have not been shy about churning the roster; there’ve been no sacred cows. Even beloved, respected, hometown boy, brought-in-by-this-regime Jon Jansen was sent packing when the Lions thought his roster spot would be better served on someone younger. In fact, they have brought in several other quarterbacks: Brooks Bollinger, Kevin O’Connell, Zac Robinson—and they just worked out Josh McCown and J.T. O’Sullivan earlier this week. If any of those guys offered a floor, or ceiling, higher than Stanton, Drew’d be gone.
I realize, at this point, that I sound like a fool. I realize, at this point, that everyone else long ago boarded the Drew Stanton Sucks So Bad it’s Funny train, even though the reality of his situation hasn’t changed: he’s still a 2007 second-round draft pick, and he’s still only getting his second real shot at playing quarterback for this team. He’s getting a full week of practice reps with the ones, a full week of preparing as the starter, a sellout home crowd, and a team eager to play for him—and get the victory over the Bears that was taken from them.
Go get ‘em, Drew.
Darko Milicic is obviously the impetus of this post.
For those who haven’t noticed (and judging by the coverage it has received, how haven’t you noticed?), Milicic has found himself of late in Minnesota, averaging 16.5 points, 8.3 rebounds, 4.0 blocks and 3.5 assists per game over his last six games while shooting over 50 percent. He’s also leading the NBA in blocked shots at 2.9 per game overall. Darko Milicic. Darko. Milicic.
But although Milicic and his newfound production is the biggest gut-punch, he’s far from the only recent Piston benchwarmer to suddenly figure things out in another location. In fact, there are quite a few of them floating around the league now, enough to form a pretty intriguing (and cheap) starting five.
Former Pistons have been so good (or at least better than I thought they’d be), in fact, that I’ve recently been wondering: could this hypothetical starting five of former Pistons make the playoffs in the Eastern Conference?
Here’s my lineup:
Billups is the no-brainer of the group. The perception of Billups at the time he was dealt was that he had at least plateaued as a player, if not started a decline.
Well, as his tenure in Denver has shown, stories of his decline were greatly exaggerated. He’s still one of the top PGs in the league, an effective leader/locker room presence and he even posted a career-high season in scoring last year at age 33. There are limitations to Billups’ game (he still struggles some defensively against quick point guards), but I have no doubts that he could still lead a team to the playoffs.
There were signs that Afflalo was going to be a late first round steal when he was in Detroit. He was well known for his work ethic at UCLA and the Pistons also praised him throughout his first two seasons in the league for always working hard in practice even if he wasn’t being rewarded with consistent playing time.
Afflalo was traded to Denver in a cost cutting move and deemed expendable because the team signed Ben Gordon and extended Rip Hamilton. All Afflalo has done is turn into one of the best 3-point shooters in the league, plays solid defense and his .631 true shooting percentage this season is nearly identical to Gordon’s (.632) and it’s a higher mark than Hamilton has ever had in his career for only a fraction of the cost of either of those players.
Delfino is the super athletic and versatile wing off the bench the Pistons really could’ve used during every season of the Flip Saunders era. And unfortunately, Delfino was right there on the bench, ready to get an opportunity, that whole time. He never stayed in the rotation in Detroit for long and was sent to Toronto in a deal for a future second rounder.
Delfino had a solid season with the Raptors, played one season in Russia, then re-emerged as a starter on a playoff team in Milwaukee last season. Delfino isn’t elite in any one facet of the game, but he can shoot, slash to the basket, defend and pass reasonably well.
For a late second round pick, Johnson has had a good career already. Most guys picked where he was selected don’t last long in the NBA, and Johnson is now on his third NBA contract. Detroit spent several seasons developing him, hoping he’d become a rotation player. In his final season in Detroit, he briefly started for the Pistons, then disappeared from the rotation, then made a few cameo appearances the rest of the season before getting traded to Milwaukee, who spun him to Toronto for (interestingly) the rights to Delfino.
In Toronto, Johnson has had the same problem that plagued him in Detroit: he fouls too much. But he’s also played consistent minutes.
Johnson can’t be counted on to be a 35-minute-per-game big man at this point, but for 20-25 minutes a game, he’ll play with energy, he’ll shoot a really high percentage, you’ll never have to run a play for him, he’ll rebound and he’ll block shots.
This season, he’s averaging 8.7 points, 5.5 points and 1.1 blocks per game in 20.1 minutes while shooting nearly 60 percent.
He doesn’t have the major upside many thought he did (Matt Watson, I’m looking at you) in Detroit, but he’s become a solid rotation big man who, if he continues this level of production, will be worth the contract many scoffed at when he re-signed in Toronto.
As stated above, Darko has been a terror over the last six games after a miserable start to the season. Personally, I don’t want to live in a world where Milicic is a good NBA player. Or one where David Kahn makes a good signing. But we have to face facts: if Milicic produces near this level throughout the life of his contract, he’s going to be one of the best values in the NBA.
And remember: for as long as he’s been around, he’s only 25-years-old, and he’s still a young 25 since most of his NBA career has been spent glued to the bench in Detroit, Orlando, Memphis or New York.
There’s really no reasonable way to predict how this lineup would compete against other starting fives in the league. But (thanks to Dan Feldman for putting running all the numbers in his spreadsheets), we can at least see, based on Win Shares, how they compare.
Here are the Win Shares for my hypothetical starting lineup:
That lineup has produced 4.2 total Win Shares. League average for most common starting fives used by each NBA team is 5.9 Win Shares, so this hypothetical group of starters currently would be 23rd in the league in that department. Not good, although they are better than the Pistons most common starting five, which has 3.1 combined Win Shares.
Another thing to keep in mind: Billups has started the season slow, and his total will almost certainly go up. Delfino has been injured, so he could go up as well and Darko started the season so poorly offensively that even his torrid offensive pace over the last six games still leaves him with a negative total of offensive Win Shares for the season. That could change if he keeps shooting the ball well.
Of course, Milicic and Johnson could both see their production decline significantly as well and this whole post will look really dumb in a few weeks when they fall back to Earth.
I’ll definitely be watching as the season goes on though and updating if necessary. In a lot of cases, the players who got away from the Pistons are becoming more significant stories in Joe Dumars’ legacy than the players who are here.
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Nothing is imminent, of course, but Vince Ellis of the Free Press raises the possibility that Charlie Villanueva could start a power forward for the Pistons if he continues to play at such a high level:
Although he won’t admit it publicly, he would prefer to start. If Kuester were to make that move, it would stop the Jason Maxiell-Austin Daye juggling act at power forward. Then Maxiell and Daye could be regular parts of the second unit, where Daye could get settled at his more natural small forward spot.
But if Villanueva keeps performing, Kuester might feel it best to leave it alone.
So Villanueva could start for the Pistons. Unless he doesn’t. Admittedly, that doesn’t bring much clarity to the issue, but it’s pretty clear Villanueva has been the Pistons best option at power forward all season so far. He’s out-played every other candidate at that position, and he did say before the season started that he’d like to be a starter. Ideally, I’d like to see Villanueva get rewarded for his obvious commitment to improving and good attitude with the starting job if that’s what he desires.
But the positive thing is that he’s been closing games, whether he starts them or not. He’s been one of the Pistons’ best (if not the best) crunch time players this season.
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Green Bay Packers strong safety Atari Bigby saw his first action of the season in the Packers’ last game, but he didn’t return to the starting lineup after his return from the physically unable to perform list. Charlie Peprah, initially an injury replacement for rookie Morgan Burnett, remained in the role. It looks like Peprah [...]
A quarterback controversy seems to be brewing in Cleveland, but what else is new? It felt weird going almost half the season without a great deal of uncertainty at the position.
That being said, let’s fuel the fire and pose this question: provided that all are healthy, who should be the quarterback of the Cleveland Browns?
Note: There is a poll embedded within this post, please visit the site to participate in this post’s poll.
Dawg Pound Daily | A Cleveland Browns Blog
When Pistons coach John Kuester declared early in training camp that starting positions were ‘up for grabs’, his statement elicited its share of “Psshh … we’ll believe it when we see it” responses.
With a veteran-dominated team virtually every year of the Joe Dumars era, and a starting lineup that has had a minimum of three (and as many as five) spots set in stone for the last nine years or so, it’s understandable why many wouldn’t possibly believe that players like Rip Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince or Ben Wallace would be in any danger of not starting. And although he doesn’t qualify as a member of the championship core of veterans, the team’s commitment to Rodney Stuckey at the starting point guard spot has been unwavering for the last two seasons, making him seem like a virtual lock for the starting lineup as well.
With all four of those players presumably starting the season-opener, joined by first-time starter Austin Daye, it’s conceivable to believe that this ‘open competition’ was more coach-speak and didn’t actually materialize. In reality, four of the five starting spots had clear winners, and the fifth had both candidates perform poorly. Here’s a breakdown:
The Candidates: Stuckey, Will Bynum
The Preseason Stats:
The Per-36 Minute Stats:
Key stats for Stuckey: His per-36 numbers in the preseason were very strong, although he was helped greatly by closing the preseason with two fantastic games offensively. But one stat that was consistent for him throughout the preseason: he’s getting to the line very frequently. If he can continue getting to the line six or more times per game, that will be a huge plus for him. And his overall 47 percent shooting in the preseason was a very good sign. For a guy who gets so many of his points inside of 15 feet, his career shooting percentage is way too low.
His 1.6-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio this preseason was bad. Even with the positives Stuckey can bring if he’s shooting a better overall percentage and getting to the line, the Pistons desperately need him to get better at making plays for teammates. That doesn’t mean he has to be Steve Nash, but if he can get that ratio up to 2.5-to-1ish range, that will be a huge improvement for him.
Key stats for Bynum: Bynum rebounded the ball better than Stuckey this preseason, which is pretty strange considering Bynum is really small and Stuckey, for some reason, has been labeled as a good rebounding guard even though it’s not backed up statistically. Bynum was also pretty consistent — he didn’t have any really great games or really poor ones, whereas Stuckey started slow and finished really strong.
He also improved drastically from the perimeter. He’s not going to be a three-point threat, but he can now knock the shot down enough that he can’t be left wide open out there.
Like Stuckey, he didn’t have a great assist-to-turnover ratio, something the Pistons desperately need out of whoever is their primary point guard this season.
The verdict: Stuckey is going to start, and it’s hard to argue, based on preseason, that he’s not deserving. Bynum had a stronger start, Stuckey had a stronger finish, and with Bynum sitting out the last two games, it’s pretty easy to see that Stuckey won this job.
The Candidates: Hamilton, Ben Gordon
The Preseason Stats:
The Per-36 Minute Stats:
Key Stats for Hamilton: The only number I’m concerned with after watching Hamilton in the preseason is the 39 percent shooting. Hamilton’s a slow starter in his career, so typically a mediocre preseason is nothing to worry about. But his shooting percentage has been plummeting the last two seasons, and the preseason didn’t do anything to show he has his stroke back. His per-36 assist numbers were very good, and the Pistons generally have better movement and fewer isos when he’s on the floor because of his activity, but if he’s not hitting a high percentage of his shots, his value will continue to plummet.
Key Stats for Gordon: Gordon’s shooting stroke, on the other hand, looked like it was back at times. He shot the ball very well, finishing the preseason at 51 percent. (ED: Scratch that. Gordon only shot 43 percent in the preseason).His three-point stroke didn’t seem to come back either. Gordon only shot 32 percent from three-point range, which isn’t a good sign coming off a career-low last year in three-point percentage. Gordon also had more turnovers than assists in the preseason.
The Verdict: Virtually every statistic favors Gordon here. But as I mentioned above, Hamilton’s motion is a good fit on the floor whether he’s shooting well or not, whereas Gordon can be more of a ball-stopper. The Pistons also desperately need a bounceback season for Hamilton if they intend to trade him at some point. Taking away his starting job before the season started wouldn’t be the best way to convince team’s he’s healthy and ready to be semi-productive again. This is the only case in the starting five where there is a really strong case that the person who is likely to start may not have actually won the job in camp.
One number inverted in a spreadsheet can certainly mess things up. Hamilton and Gordon both shot poorly in the preseason. Hamilton shot slightly worse, but had more assists, turned it over less and is a better defensive player who doesn’t have to have the ball all the time on offense, unlike Gordon who doesn’t move without the ball the way Hamilton does. Basically, the Pistons need one of these two to be much more productive than they were in the preseason.
The Candidates: Tayshaun Prince, DaJuan Summers
The Preseason Stats:
The Per-36 Minute Stats:
Key Stats for Prince: Prince was the steadying influence he always is this preseason. He shot it well and he showed he’s the most efficient player with the ball that the Pistons have, with a per-36 assist-to-turnover ratio of nearly 4-to-1. The only real gripe (and it’s a minor one) is that with Daye playing at power forward, I would hope Prince’s rebounding numbers go up since Daye will need all the help he can get down low.
Key Stats for Summers: As his per-36 numbers suggest, Summers can provide a reasonable amount of scoring, and he does it in a variety of ways. He also shot a poor percentage from the floor, he was an astounding -44 for the preseason in just 120 minutes of action and he averaged less than one assist per-36 minutes. Summers just doesn’t do much of anything except for score, and in the preseason, he didn’t do that efficiently.
The Verdict: With Tracy McGrady out and Daye getting pushed into the PF competition with the injury to Jonas Jerebko, it was hard to call this a competition. Summers never had a chance to unseat Prince, and even with Prince cruising through the preseason preserving his body for the regular season, he still easily out-performed Summers at the three spot.
The Candidates: Daye, Charlie Villanueva, Greg Monroe
The Preseason Stats:
The Per-36 Minute Stats:
Key Stats for Daye: What else can be written about Daye? He was the most exciting player in the preseason, his confidence has grown tremendously since last year and as his per-36 stats show, he’s capable of doing a little bit of everything. His three-point shooting, over 50 percent in the preseason, will be a welcome addition to the lineup. Gordon and Villanueva never provided the shooting they were supposed to last season, and having a long range threat in the game is vital to unclogging some driving lanes for penetrating guards.
Key Stats for Villanueva: Villanueva started the preseason slow and finished strong. His scoring and shooting numbers were positive, and he the offseason talk about him being in great shape appears to be accurate as he looked healthy and mobile when he was on the court. His rebounding numbers were still poor.
Key Stats for Monroe: Monroe played a lot of minutes in the preseason, which is good. He also showed the passing skills that were hyped so much at Georgetown and, although it could be a preseason anomaly, he averaged nearly two steals per game. But there were also negatives — he shoot horribly for a big man (41 percent), he turned it over a lot (nearly three times per-36 minutes) and he often appeared timid as a rebounder.
The Verdict: Daye might be playing out of position as a future wing player in this league, but he’s too good to keep off the floor, and he clearly beat the other candidates at this position. Villanueva and Monroe are both used to playing down low, and Daye was a better rebounder than both of them. There’s a lot of debate as to whether playing out of position will be good or bad for Daye’s career or whether his slim body can hold up, but he’s young, smart and if his teammates provide good help for him defensively, Daye getting minutes that didn’t appear to be there for him when camp started will be a net win for the team.
The Candidates: Wallace, Jason Maxiell
The Preseason Stats:
The Per-36 Minute Stats:
Key Stats for Wallace: Wallace’s per-36 rebounding and steals numbers are about what should be expected of him. Those numbers were very solid last season as well. It’s not a great idea to play him 36 minutes a night, but it’s clear he’s going to be their only rebounding presence and only good post defender this season.
The surprising number for Wallace is in blocks. Hopefully it’s just a preseason thing, because the Pistons could really use a shot-blocking presence with so many average or below average perimeter defenders, and Wallace has traditionally provided that.
Key Stats for Maxiell: Two categories jump out, one good and one bad. Maxiell blocked a lot of shots in the preseason, 2.4 per-36 minutes. Also, he played 105 preseason minutes and didn’t pick up a single assist.
Maxiell will provide good activity, some spectacular plays and some good games off the bench. He didn’t do anything in the preseason to really suggest he should get more or fewer minutes than he’s ever received in the Detroit rotation.
The Verdict: This was another positional “battle” that wasn’t very close. Wallace might be the Pistons best player overall, and he’s still easily their best big man. Chris Wilcox didn’t factor into the competition here, either, as his -19 in just nine preseason minutes will attest. You can pretty much mark down Wilcox for a -5 in the +/- category the second he steps on the court, before he even does a thing.
Injuries certainly made some of the positional battles a little anti-climactic, but I think it’s hard to argue that the players who performed the best in the preseason are starting for the Pistons. It’s impossible to tell if Kuester would’ve actually went through with the ‘open competition’ promise if Bynum had significantly out-played Stuckey in the preseason or if McGrady were healthy and out-played either Prince or Hamilton. Those were the two wildcard scenarios that could’ve led to a shakeup of the lineup, but neither played out and the Pistons starting lineup (except for Daye) will be a familiar one on opening night.
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